Just as the finale to “Battlestar Galactica” did, the finale of “Lost” has polarized fans.
Some liked it, some loathed it, others were left scratching their heads.
But in all the conversation about the finale (and you can expect a ton of it on this week’s Slice of SciFi and next week’s voice mail show), one question has been asked consistently–did they really know where it would all end before the series began.
Producers Damon Lindelof and Carleton Cuse say they did and they didn’t. They tell SciFi Wire that while the end point was mapped out from day one, that not all the arcs on how the characters would get there were set in stone.
“It was a combination of both those things,” Cuse says. “There was a big, mythic architecture which included a lot of what’s in the finale, in terms of where we end the show, that we knew way back in the beginning. And then, before each season, we’d have a writers mini-camp and spend a month without any pressure of writing other scripts, figuring out the architecture of the upcoming season. That’d sort of take the artists’ rendering and turn it into blueprints and then, during the season, episode by episode, we built the structure. We allowed ourselves a lot of flexibility to change things around as we were doing construction. It was impossible to have everything planned out, and so it was kind of built in stages.”
Lindelof added that they were concerned with not pulling a “Twin Peaks” and fizzling out after the first season.
“We didn’t want to be of the mindset in the first season to assume that people would want to watch the show for six years,” Lindelof said. “That’s a gift that the audience gave us, to be able to do the show as we did. To sit down at episode eight and start to talk about what you’re going to do in the second season … The guys doing FlashForward, for example, were being asked about the second season at the upfront last year. It’s good to have a plan, but at the same time the most important plan is making the next episode really good. That’s the only job that Carlton and I and everybody else on this show has ever had.”
Lindelof added, “Sometimes in order to make the next episode really good you need to have an incredible super-structure and the blueprints that Carlton is referring to, but at the end of day it really wasn’t until we negotiated the end date that we could sit down and in a very detailed way say, ‘This is exactly what we want to do over the course of the next three years. We know exactly how many episodes we have to do and we think people will probably watch us for another three years if we’re able to execute this.’”
I still think they all died in the plane crash in the pilot! The rest was just the path to the light.
Considering the fact that it was acknowledged that they DIDN'T die in the plane crash and that their lives on the island was real, I don't see the need for them to apologize. Some loved, some hated it.... guess what, they were never going to please anyone anyway. It's over... in the words of Desmond Hume... Let it go.
They put in the amount of planning that any creator worth his/her salt would put in: ideas, very basic structures, but incredibly flexible to allow for better ideas or behind the scenes changes. That is the best you can do and all you should try and do, 99% of the time. The only reason that Babylon 5 was able to stick to its incredibly detailed plan was because one guy wrote 90 of the 110 episodes.
@notme: I believe they've canonically ruled out the "dead all along!" idea several times within the series itself, not to mention the numerous times that Darlton have said "No, they didn't all die in the plane crash, everything that happened on the Island REALLY HAPPENED".
It wasn't a good enough ending. Lost was a sci-fi show with a not sci-fi ending. THAT is the problem. Not that enough questions didn't get answered. That's not the problem. The problem was I watched this show so engulfed by the sheer genius of the sci-fi elements of time travel, the magnetism at the center of the island, etc. And the mythology behind the history of Jacob was also interesting, but when they ended it with the alternate universe being purgatory, well frankly, it was a cop out. They should have stayed in the realm of sci fi they played the show up to be for the whole time. That's what it was for 5 seasons and 16 episodes, and one single episode at the end is spiritual. It's not right, and it's not fair. I'm honestly hurt by it because it could have ended with a terrific sci fi ending and it would have made the show the best show ever created...ever. But to end it on that note was just not right, to us and to the writers, and to the characters. I'm more sad than angry.
Errol, everything about the smoke monster, from the first season onward, was right out of spiritualist fantasy, considering that it was initially tied to questions of redemption. Remember how the survivors in the first season split between those living in the caves (those willing to begin their redemptive journeys) and those staying on the beach (those still clinging to their former lives)? The plot was always in service to the characters' search for forgiveness, absolution, and their place in the world. By the time it came down to the MiB taking the form of Locke, it was waaay beyond strict science fiction.
Which, personally, I don't have a problem with. I loved "Babylon 5", which was more heavily science fiction, but also explored the characters' spiritual notions of faith, redemption, and forgiveness. And it, too, ended with a finale that was all about letting go and moving on.
The smoke monster was mythological, not spiritualistic, and the people living in the caves vs. on the beach can be debated as spiritual. Time Travel, Desmond, changing the future, immortality, DHARMA, all are strict sci-fi and not debatable. And when the MIB took the form of Locke, that pretty much spat in the face of spiritualism because Locke was the one with the faith.
Also, there were too many holes in the alternate univers for it to be intended on purgatory. I feel that the creators got cold feet at the end, much like Ron Moore in Battlestar.
Call it spiritualism, call it mythology, call it magical realism, call it exotic particles and electromagnetic pockets. Long story short? There was always magic--yeah, MAGIC--at the heart of the Island's mystical properties and at the heart of the show. I mean, a guy gets healed. Ghosts live on the Island. Did you seriously expect a hard sci-fi explanation for why Richard is immortal, or why the Man in Black could only take the form of dead people? Sure, a lot of the mysteries had answers that edged closer to hard sci-fi, but you must've been watching the show with blinders on if you had no inkling there would be anything mystical at the root of what was going on.
And when Man in Black took Locke's form? Yeah, that was a spit in the face against the message of "faith". It was deliberate. It was not only to shake the characters, but to shake the audience. But in the last few episodes of the season, we had Jack ascending into the role of the man of faith and telling people--telling the Man in Black himself--that Locke had been right all along. The characters and the audience had their faith shaken and broken so that it could be built up again, better than ever.
And this will probably sound rude or blunt, but it's what I think: anyone who watched that finale and thought it was a disservice to the characters CLEARLY tuned into an episode of Survivor my mistake and still hasn't realised that they watched the wrong show on Sunday night.
Stupid typos!
*BY mistake. Tuned into an episode of Survivor BY mistake.
@bronzethumb. I agree with your assessment. What is unclear to me is how Kate, Hurley, Ben, Sawyer and Claire die. They show everyone else die and I assume they are dead since they are in the "sideways" which is purgatory. Perhaps the plane leaving the island crashes which would explain Kate, Sawyer and Claire (scene after credits of plane parts on island) but we are left to believe that Ben and Hurley are left on the island. Not sure how you can have a finale where main characters die but you have no idea how. Did I miss something? Why didn't Ben go with everyone else toward the light?
It was a sci-fi show without a sci-fi ending.
@babs: My impression is that those guys got back to civilisation and lived their lives, and when they eventually died of old age they wound up in the flash-sideways. Because it's a place outside of normal time, everyone ends up there together, no matter when they actually died.
And I don't think Ben went into the light because he didn't think he was ready yet. Maybe he wanted to atone for all the bad stuff he'd done in life first. Maybe he wants to take the opportunity to spend time with Alex.
@Errol: It was never a sci-fi show. It was never a fantasy show. It was never an action/adventure show. It HAD elements of science fiction, fantasy, action, adventure, etc. but from day one, Lost was a character drama, so the finale was all about the characters.
Drama is a label for everything that's not a romance or a comedy. The kind of drama it was, was a sci-fi. The category Lost can be found in is science fiction. The ending was unjust.
It had as much science fiction as it did fantasy, as it did action, as it did adventure. You've lumped the show into one category and decided that it requires an exact kind of ending, and you're upset because the people who actually make the show don't agree with you. It's the same as the Battlestar ending: how can people complain about God being in the finale of that show when God was a driving force in events since the very first episode? It'd be like me watching the finale of 24 and complaining that it was violent.
It was more sci-fi than anything else, just as Battlestar was. People had a problem with it because it deserved to be called a problem. And all sci-fi has action and adventure in it, the only things that weren't really sci-fi were the history of Jacob and Samuel, and even that could still be in the realm of science fiction since there wasn't much information on them, given it was the Island that gave them the power and is also the source of the science fiction themes of the show. But all that aside, God never made a presence on the show, other than Eko, who wasn't even a priest but felt bad about his brother, who was, and he was such a small part in the series. Just because Locke talks about faith doesn't mean there's religious presence, it just literally means faith. Faith and religion aren't the same thing. That's why people are angry, and they have a right to be. Plus there's too many holes in the alternate universe for us to believe it was purgatory the whole time. The writers copped out at the end because they were scared of being remembered as "Just a sci-fi show". Obviously fantasy and action and adventure are involved, what do you think Time travel is? A frolic? No, it's full of action and adventure, but it's still science fiction. This is my last post.
I'm sorry but how do we even know that Jack died when he closed his eyes. They said everyone died but not all at the same time. Jack could have passed out and woke up later. Even if Jack did die, Hurly knowing that the waters could revive a dead person could have used them on Jack. Jack could have died 30 years later and still have attended the church scene as we saw him in the sideverse. Heck, we could still get a movie 3 years from now with Jack and Hurley with Kate and Sawyer going back to the island to get Jack. The bottom line is that this ending is open to interpretation.
What I hate is stories where the hero dies at the end. As such if Jack died (as many have concluded) then I would be very disappointed as this was a real downer ending. If he somehow lived then the ending is more positive.
Would people have loved Star Wars as much if Luke Skywalker died at the end of Return of the Jedi? I think not. I believe several people were disapointed in they invested 121 hours watching this show and wanted a positive payoff. I realize that downer endings are considered more artistic but I believe that in today's world many people are drepressed and really wanted lost to end on a positive upbeat note but were disappointed when it did not.
Oh well
--Rocco--
@errol: I was referring to God explicitely being in *Battlestar*, not Lost. You're right in saying that only Eko (and occasionally Charlie) mentioned anything about God in Lost; Locke's faith was in the Island and his own purpose. I've been known to vehemently support the notion that religion and faith aren't the same thing.
Season 5 was a very science fiction season, absolutely, but the show as a whole was never an explicit, SF-only series. Notice how 90% of the time travel and SF concepts were limited to that particular seaon and rarely cropped up anywhere else? You admit that Jacob and the Man in Black's history wasn't sci-fi; you do realise that those two character and what happens in that episode was the thing that kicked off everything that happened in the show, right? What, in the thousand years between "Across the Sea" and the pilot, someone came along and replaced the glowy cave with a big tachyon accelerator warp field generator whatsis? Do you really think that making the Island a spaceship or having everyone in the church at the end get abducted by aliens or revealing the Monster to be a cloud of nanobots would have been a MORE satisfying ending?
@rocco: His situation at the end was pretty bad; I'd feel sorry for Jack if he *wasn't* dying, what with that big stomach wound and whatever badness the Light had done to him. It's pretty certain that he's dead. But the flash-sideways meant that it wasn't really depressing; sad, yes, but not depressing. Jack went out on his own terms, having accomplished the things he wanted to, and he got to meet his friend again in the FS universe.
God I hope that these writers never get another job again in their lives. That episode (and in my opinion because of the way it ended - the whole series) was absolute c**p. I think that the series title really sums up the story line. Lost the plot.
What really pisses me off about this is the way that lost and some other shows like it loose millions of viewers but still stay on the networks while intelligent shows like Defying Gravity and many more get cancelled before they get a chance to do a second season.
And how anyone can applaud the writers for doing a good job really shows what is wrong with this planet. So lacking in intelligence.
At least Chuck has another season
As someone who loved the finale, still loves the series and probably falls under the category of people you just accused of being "lacking in intelligence", may I ask why you thought it was crap or stupid? I mean, what specific things about it got you thinking it was crap or stupid?
I was disappointed that the sideways story was effectively just a dream and just filler content for the last season.
The main story finished well, they were always going to finish it with Jacks eye closing in the final scene and I think a hero dying isn't such a bad ending. It might have been a nice hollywood to end showing the survivors happily ever after, but with the last scene always going to be jack dying it wouldn't have fit.
Great show, slightly let down by all the holes that are left
Errol, your argument is ridiculous and self-serving. Why in the world would two producers that were finishing up a series with no to little network interference, completely on their own terms, give a damn if the show was remembered as "just a sci-fi show"? It was over! If there's ever a time for anyone not to care, it's then!
And even the most cursory re-examination of the "sideways" material makes it very clear that it falls right in line with the resolution, thus making it equally clear that it was part of the design from at least the planning stages of the final season.
Jon E, bravo! Ad hominem attacks are always the most convincing. Really.
I watched a few episodes from season 1 & 2 but gave up after that, knowing this show was likely to go on longer than I was prepared to spend time on it. Here in Australia it started well with audiences, then progressively moved to later and later timeslots before going off to a secondary digital channel.
I watched the final.
At least there was some sort of final episode that closed off the story.
Not that I could follow a lot of what was going on, but enough.
Too many shows just "end"; ie, get cancelled.
@phase5: Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I've given up on Aussie FTA television, I occasionally tune in for things like Spicks & Specks or GNW, and just fire up the BitTARDIS for everything else.
I don't know what kind of ads you Yanks were running during the original broadcast of the finale, but it seemed like in Aus, they were geared specifically towards yanking you out of the story as much as humanly possibly.
Lets be fair, even if they didn't know where they were going, they aren't going to admit it, at least not for a very long while. I wasn't very taken with the finale. It was ok, but for me, too many unanswereds about the island rather than anything else. The personal journies were fine and I didn't mind that bit too much. I did find it odd though that the second time I watched it, I actually disliked it more, which wasn't my intention. Maybe I saw more flaws in it second time around! There have been worse finales at the end of the day, but there have certainly been better ones.
First of all it wasnt oceanic 815 flying over, and i don't see how having an afterlife is 'jumping the shark' if you will, especially since its always had huge references and themes of spirituality and religion and the fact the island has some sort of connection to it (spirits being trapped their, people being able to communicate with the dead)
There's no where near as many unanswered questions as some people think there are, the monster,whispers,dharma,jacob,adam and eve,the sickness,the statue,pregnancy issue,food drops,the island,the black rock,the numbers,the others were all answered and are all the important aspects of the show.
And it is a sci fi/fantasy so it should of been obvious there would be mystical or magical answers to some things.
I think alot of the hatred is by people who either didnt understand what had happened, weren't aware that some things had already been answered along time ago (polar bears),expected a scientific analysis for everything that happened, were expecting a reveal at the end like 'the island was a space ship' or it was all a virtual reality programmed by aliens.